Sunday, February 7, 2010

Theology

 Predestination, Part One

On a forum [http://www.heedtheprophecies.com/theunderground/] I got into a discussion with them on theology, particularly one topic, predestination.  So, I decided to make a post about what I think and believe about this topic.

Being that I believe in predestination, I will only post why I believe in it, and not the arguments against, that's your job to do through the comments.  So, if you don't know, predestination is the belief that before God created the world, He knew who would come to Heaven, and that only those who He chose will go to Heaven.  So, first off, I'm going to give a few verses that support this:

  •  29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.  Romans 8:29-30 
  • 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Ephesians 1:5 
  • 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:  Ephesians 1:11
Note that all of these verses are King James Version and have been copied and pasted from the internet, but not before I looked it up in my Bible and checked them word for word, so these verses are accurate.
     These are the verses I could find on so short notice.  It is obvious to me from these verses that God chose His people from the foundation of the earth and it is not by our choice but by His Will that we are selected.  While some may say that it is unfair that God chooses some and not all, I think it is unfair that we are not all condemned to hell and that God was merciful and selected some people to go to Heaven with Him.  "For all fall short of the glory of God", none of us should be allowed to go to heaven, because we are sinful by nature.  Now I am not saying that God will turn anyone away that wishes to accept Jesus into their hearts.  No, it is my belief that God will not turn away anybody that desires Him.  But I also believe that no one will have that desire except if God has put it in them, which means, only those that He chose at the founding of the world will have that desire to follow Him, so no one that has not been called by God will will ask for Jesus to enter their lives, and so that argument is not accurate.

If you do not agree with what I have said I encourage that you comment, but for this post I ask a few things:  First, please have at least one verse to back your argument(you may use the same verse if you choose to comment again) and please make sure it is accurate, word for word, second, please stay strictly on topic about Predestination, whether it be pro or con, and third, please use proper grammar and spelling, it's hard to take a discussion/debate seriously when people aren't using proper spelling.  

Part two coming soon, in that post I hope to debate some of the questions and arguments of predestination as well as have more verses to back it. 

6 comments:

Jeremiah said...

If I may use your own verse, Romans 8:29, Paul says we are predestined to be conformed to Christ. John 15:16 says we were chosen to bear fruit. John 6:70 says that Judas was chosen, but a devil, so we know that predestination isn't about being saved, but being servants.

Predestination is real, but since the 1500's its been misdefined.

Imagine that a man wanted to dig a giant hole. In order to dig that hole, he would need a lot of shovels, so he goes to a shovel factory and says, "I want to buy all your shovels, and I don't want to buy anything but shovels." If the factory owner agrees, they've just predestined all the shovels for the buyers use. Trees will have to be cut down to make handles, but he hasn't chosen which trees will be turned into shovel handles. In the same way, God does not choose which of us will become Christians, but he chooses the ultimate task for anyone who might become a Christian-serving and bearing fruit.

Madeline said...

Seth, I think I will simply make a post on my blog sort of "in reply" unless you'd rather I kept it here. This is the address if anyone wants to read it: http://thestuffundermybed.blogspot.com

It might be a tad long, so I don't want to clog up your comments. =D

Silver Angel said...

wait, what is predestination?

Seth said...

Sorry for not getting back to you Jeremiah, still got school to do, but I hope to get to it later this afternoon/tomorrow sometime. I can answer your question SA though, by referring you to the beginning of my post. The middle-end of the second paragraph in this post explains it :)

Random Dan Thoughts said...

Good handling of this topic, Seth. Tough topic, man. I would say that most people that argue against this topic do so from "human understanding" which is probably not the best since God says his thoughts and ways are higher than our thoughts and ways. Even though we may find it difficult to embrace, when the Bible teaches something, we would do well to embrace it anyway.

I am always interested to hear differing viewpoints, but Jeremiah, i am not sure i understand your thought. Are you saying that God orders our steps after salvation but not anything leading to salvation? How has predestination been misdefined since the 1500s?

Madeline said...

Random Dan,

The Bible does not teach predestination. =D Some people say it does, but it doesn't. In that case, I'm under no obligation to accept it as fact.